We relate. [quote]Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. VOTN, they used to think blood-letting and reading the bumps on people's head was science, too. His parents didnt understand the full extent of it, but high school wasnt turning out to be a kind place for him. I have cousins who did shit like this - what was I supposed to do, call the cops and tell them to search their bedrooms because they might be crazy? "some manipulate, like my parents.". COLUMBINE, pisode 3 : l'impact sur la socit, 3. R71, having seen Patti Lupone shit all over Gypsy, I can assure you, there's a Hell. x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. Very well said, r18. His parents knew this, though not the extent of it. They crowned a queen, they crowned a king. What I am saying is that the cause is something deeper and more primal than "society.". They then killed themselves in the school library. But they sure jumped at the chance to be on Oprah! He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. In the April 24 column, Brooks had paraphrased an article in the online publication Slate that said Harris and Klebold yearned to become the most prolific mass murders in history. It is also true that environmental stimuli can make the difference between a kid with "problems" and a kid who becomes a "monster." Most of you posters here are complete idiots and voiceofthenight is the biggest moron of them all. Any pix of the monster creators? Harris' family eventually settled in Colorado in 1992. I'm with VoTN on this one. The world was shocked and sickened on April 20, 1991, when crazed students Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, slaughtered 12 students and one teacher at Colorado's Columbine High School. Sorry. The parents cars were in the driveway. Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened. Great job! By David Brooks. Harris's father erroneously stated that his son was "a member of what they call the Trenchcoat Mafia" in a 9-1-1 call he made on April 20, 1999. I'd add that Tom watched the basement tapes and even after seeing them first-hand, stated something to the effect of 'see he didn't want to do it' (I'm paraphrasing here). The interview is set to air on "20/20" this Friday, coinciding with . I didnt hear it.. I read a lot of opinions on Eric and his dad Wayne. Really just the gerden variety sociopath stuff? As much as it sucked I knew deep down that it was just a stage and that it wasn't real. It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL massacre - WikiVidi Documentary. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. Dylans parents were hands-on parents who limited the intake of television and sugary cereals. The Klebolds said their son was set off by the toxic culture of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated. Pais was a student at Miami Beach High School who was reportedly obsessed with the school shooting at Columbine, the high school where 13 people were shot and killed 20 years ago. additionally, dylan was definitely naturally shy. His grades fell to average. Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. ERIC AND DYLAN 4 LIFE! When I was in high school, my mother knew everyone I went, who I associated with, what I read, what I had my room, etc. Klebold was depressed and fell under Harris's influence. And he's not pulling a lot of punches about the media saturation either, and doesn't let the Rocky off the hook. After college, the couple married and settled in the Denver area. The second of the Columbine killers, Dylan Klebold was a "born genius" who, despite a sensitive disposition, experienced explosions of rage (most often brought on by failure or humiliation,) suicidal tendencies, a disdain for the "zombie"-like human race, and a suggestibility upon which the psychopathic . I'm not doubting what you're saying, and if you've got any insight, I'd love to hear it, but short of actually going in and manually rewiring neurons, it just seems like the best case scenario would be non-destructive analytical automaton. 04-20-1999 Died. Asking how instead of why allows us to frame the descent into self-destructive behavior as the process that it is. Sue and her husband were vehemently opposed, but Dylan still asked for a gun for Christmas his final year. As a reporter scribbled, Hooker reconsidered. FULL DOCO - PT 2 OF 3, 2. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. The testimony people point out of a co-worker stating Dylan didnt get on with his father is unreliable as he couldve been having a teenage moan or joining in one time right up to regular bitterly disparaging remarks and reasons why. Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. Yodack is a website that writes about many topics of interest to you, a blog that shares knowledge and insights useful to everyone in many fields. Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). I knew he was off, different. Funny how things cycle. Dave Cullen, in a radio interview that I've been listening to, is very quick to point out that psychopathy doesn't equate automatically with murder. Dylan is wearing a black baseball cap on backward, exposing a "B" embroidered in white on the back of the hat - the Boston Red Sox logo. Brooks said the Klebolds agreed to the interview after an exchange of e-mails initiated by Tom Klebold, who was angered by Brooks April 24 column. Funny how things cycle.". Its exactly people like you that caused this massacre to happen in the first place. The attack on Columbine is almost a prototypical school shooting, but one way in which it stands out is that it was committed by two people together. These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. By his junior and senior years, Dylans parents knew something was wrong. It didn't help matters any that our father was an abusive asshole. Eric was born in Wichita, Kansas. Indeed, up until he died, he had been going to school, working a part-time job, hanging out with his friends, planning for college all behaviors of a normal teenager. My mom and I have always thought that my brother is one "snap" away from ending up hurting someone and/or in jail. He was one of the teens behind the Columbine High School Massacre in 1999. In April 1981, Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas. Sue had no idea it was a life-and-death situation. Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. What can I say, the mention of Dave Cullen's book piqued my curiosity. He was kind, gentle, smart, and happy. He was steady enough on his feet to run, but not to stop himself from losing balance and falling, which he did, forehead-first right into the metal bed frame. I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. Parents are not automatically responsible for the behavior of their teenage children. Christ R22/R32/R39 et all. Sue (as both she and her son share the same surname, Im going to refer to them by their first names for the sake of clarity) begins by emphasizing that she and her husband, Tom, truly had no idea what Dylan was planning. Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered. There will always be apologists for the Harris parents who incredibly state that parents have no control over their children. I believe the parents both left the Columbine area, and possibly the state of Colorado. If anything, they seemed to hate everyone equally. Those kids were their responsibility legally. For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. I seem to remember them being called "fag.". Sue received a number of letters from people whod gone to Columbine who were more surprised that a shooting hadnt happened sooner than that one had happened at all. Theyd never seen his rage, nor ever felt scared of him. Why does anyone think that parents know or care what their children do? [quote]Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? The Klebolds stayed, at least as of 2004. "Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Ochberg said. its hard to take anything a grieving parents says objectively and we can of course have compassionate understanding for that but also realise it may differ from the reality of the situation, which must be painful. Cullen, who covered the story for the former Rocky Mountain News, seems to take the view that the Harrises were willfully ignorant of their son's personality (and Major Wayne Harris honestly seems like a bit of a tyrant), and the Klebolds were just clueless. however, in her book, sue shared a diary entry she wrote of an incident in the months before the massacre: 1/11/99 This long, hard day is over. Eric: "Susan, sorry. Thank you! I don't think I can categorize Dylan's relationship with his parents as bad or good, because Dylan was incredibly disturbed teen and clearly had a skewed perception of reality. The people who run gifted programs are often special ed teachers who just got assigned that particular duty, and have the attitude that being smart is its own reward. Shocking crime scene photos explode the myths and reveal shocking details! "Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting". Susan Francis Klebold ( ne Yassenoff; born March 25, 1949) is an American author and activist. To develop coping skills. I believe it was either a sibling or playmates. Subject: Re: Dylan's house google earth Tue May 10, 2016 10:18 pm. . In my defense, R78, everyone knew I wrote the best hand. I could have built an atomic bomb in my bedroom and they wouldn't have known or cared. Also when I was growing up, people had no qualms about calling a parent and saying "Your little boy Johnny said something really awful to my son today." or "Your little Janey slapped Susey today and she needs to stop doing that." ", Eric: (eventually) "That's it. In any case, teenagers can be quite unfair to their parents. When in a store and two or three siblings are fighting and shouting and behaving badly, how does that parent not see it? LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) _ Columbine High School gunman Dylan Klebold was a follower, not a leader, who went astray after he met Eric Harris, friends say. Gotta go. "He said, 'One of the boys my son shot said Dylan was a nice kid,' " Berg says. How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy? I kind of admire that. You can't learn to feel if you don't. I guess it's my generation. Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed . . To me its really hard to determine the quality of a relationship based on how teenagers feel about it. Eric Harris was beyond needing a therapist. His negative traits werent out of the ordinary either, really: he was very sensitive to embarrassment, which sometimes led to anger; and he was perhaps a little too independent, where he wouldnt ask for help even if he needed it like when he had to take a break from baseball after pains he never mentioned became so bad they caused his arm real damage. His father Wayne was an Air force pilot, his mother Kathy was a homemaker and his brother Kevin earned a masters degree and married. Her recounting of the details of Dylans life, combined with what we learned about school shooters in general, paints a picture of how this particular child ended up committing one of the most infamous massacres in American history. He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised.. These things outweighed their concerns about him. WTF?!? They cry innocence and ignorance, when I know they were anything BUT. . The oblivious parents in Target or sitting inside their houses listening to their kids having a meltdown and completely ignoring it. Planning? There's no remorse, no connection to anything we would call human. Is that correct? I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. There are several theories but there is not one definition. The Columbine story was recently remade, with some editorial changes, as The Hottie and the Nottie starring Paris Hilton. Children learn psychopathy from their parents (e.g., the Bushes). We didnt realize it until after the end, Tom Klebold said. My own experience is that my gifted teacher dragged me out of sporting events because they weren't academic enough, encouraged my teachers to assign me extra work that the other kids didn't do, and basically didn't understand teenagers, high school, or what it was like to be ostracized at all. While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. Yesterday there was a girl in her backyard screaming like an insane person at somebody or something. He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. Dylan Bennet Klebold Born: 9-11-1981 6 feet 2.5 inches tall, 143 lbs. ". It wasnt deemed something that needed further attention. , What was the deadliest school shooting? I don't think the parents are to blame and never had, but it's a lot easier hating these two kids and their parents then hating the society that produced them. This thread is going to hell in jig time if it turns into the all-too-familiar "they were running up and down the aisles and that caused Columbine!!!" Family & Personal Life. At the same time, the father must have believed that his son's future was still bright. (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this. What a twat. Sue Klebold is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the two shooters who committed the Columbine High School massacre, murdering 12 students and a teacher. Some folks do indeed work from very primitive brain impulses. A lot of psychiatry is and has always been about cheap quick labels, rather than an honest analysis of the society in which individuals live. [] Asking why only makes us feel hopeless. The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. Dylanx92s father worked from home and saw his son every day. Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised, Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks in Saturdays editions of The New York Times. I think we can value Sue's words more than Dylan's words in this one. Very few people really care. [quote]I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. May 15, 2004. Are any of Robert Hare's books of interest, if you know? ". (p. 311-312) Synthesizing the many factors, its argued that most school shooters have a history of social rejection, along with either psychological problems, an interest in weapons, and/or a fascination with death (p. 314). Hey mom, gotta go Tom isnt even included in the insincere goodbye. I think maybe his outlook grew worse over time. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. VERIFY: In the past 20 years did the majority of mass shooters take psychotropic drugs? His mom was trying to find the best fit for him, but I suspect it ended up being more difficult for him), and both enjoyed violent video games. On August 30, 2006 Columbine obsessed 18 year old Alvaro Castillo would murder his father with a sawed off Mossberg 500 shotgun at their home and then drive to a local high school and open fire. "I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy.". (They said no.) They may show cruelty to animals, or alternatively a high degree of affection or attachment to animals. She is the author of A Mother's Reckoning, a book about the signs she missed of Dylan's mental state. "How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy?". Of course there is no formula for determining whether someone will turn out to be a school shooter, but I definitely agree with the sentiment that it is important to look at how these things happen. I think you did an excellent job with this blog post. Maybe that's what I find so scary about the whole thing, that there are people who walk around, every day, and are completely lacking in everything that I thinks makes us human. Dylan was giddy and beaming, all cleaned up for once. I was in high school at the time. I think that even I have sustained some slight rewiring from that, though not anywhere *near* to the extent of my brother's. It Always seems like he didn't give a damn about them, in his writings and in the Basement Tapes. She's spent years excavating every detail of her family life, trying to understand what she could have done to prevent her son's violence. Or is your tiny mind only capable of two viewpoints? Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. As a teen, Dylans aversion to embarrassment became more severe, his self-consciousness more pointed. Not to cure it, to manage it. I mean, I purposefully avoided everything except a quick glance at the CNN and MSNBC frontpages, but they had stories about the anniversary pretty front and center. Dylan was also drinking at the end of his life, likely complicating his mental health issues, though had once said that marijuana was a waste of time and so perhaps wasnt involved in drugs. When asked about Dylan's behavior, Byron indicated that Dylan appeared to be somewhat detached and he went on to explain that as a "pissed off teenager." Byron went on to state that Dylan gave no indication to believe that something like this was going to occur. German-American restaurant owner: "You vill not be a mass murderer!" It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. School officials, law enforcement, and the adult community learned a lot after Columbine and are doing a better job of detecting trouble. When I moved out on my own I gained the privacy afforded to adults. [quote]The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. I'm glad Oprah isn't going to help this man promote his book. As I often do, Ill leave the author the last word on why understanding the process her son went through is important: Dylan was vulnerable in many ways unquestionably emotionally immature, depressed, possibly suffering from a more serious mood or personality disorder. It is very difficult to assign causality in cases like this. Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom'. Yes, it's really terrible when there is the free-flow of information and ideas, isn't it? And then later on, how was he able to conceal his mental state so successfully? Dylan kept talking about college, about his future. There are a myriad of factors to consider. 6. R17, would you call yourself more of a Harris or more of a Klebold? Few more places I can't think of now. In this difficult, jarring talk, Klebold explores the intersection between mental health and violence . Dylan's mother, Sue Klebold, confirmed to radio host Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" Tuesday that she is Jewish, and her now ex-husband, Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . I found this thred on accident and had to comment. Bartol, C. R., & Bartol, A. M. (2017). He started getting in trouble, and complained of how certain groups of kids were ruthless bullies, yet the school did nothing to stop them. There are also certain traits that lead to a school itself being more or less at risk for a shooting event: an inflexible culture, inequitable discipline, tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and a code of silence (p. 315). 17 year old son of Mr. Thomas Klebold (then 52) and Mrs. Susan (Yassenoff) Klebold (then 50), younger brother to Byron. [quote]You have to ignore a whole lot of what is wrong with society to limit it to a bogus discussion about how some people have "brains wired differently." r54 is right. Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. if anyone can correct or find the sources for me that would be greatly appreciated! I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again.

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